flwrdrdn - we have had varying experiences on both fronts. We rented our first condo via a travel site and it was with a management company, the complex was wonderful and while the unit was clean we had several problems that the agency simply didn't care about. We have rented directly through an owner and that was an experience that was absolutely horrible. We have rented with a management company who was incredibly upfront and found a unit that was amazing! We have rented directly through an onsite management and were treated like family in a unit that I would love to share with my family.

Currently we have reservations for a unit through VRBO and while I admit that I have some ambivalence after our last awful experience - I am hopeful.

Caution is key, there simply are few guarantees. Some of the larger agencies are merely doing the paperwork and minimal cleaning. Some have higher standards than others. Some owners cherish their properties and others are looking to make the payments.

My personal preference is to see the unit, but photos can be decieving. There are many agencies that will allow you to choose your unit.

I wish I were more helpful, but these are my experiences - a mixed bag.

You are correct in asking questions - if it is something that matters to you, then it matters.

I understand the rental agent's unhappiness. VRBO has changed his world. You no longer *must* market your home via a Realtor's MLS either, paying full commission. You can sell FSBO, or via a reduced-services/reduced-commission brokerage. A condo owner doesn't *have* to rely on an agency's marketing.

My experience is mainly from the condo owner side. We have a contract with a rental agency to manage our condo; provide cleaners; register guests; provide any services a guest needs while he is in our condo. (A/C quits; they fix it immediately; toilet runs; they fix it, etc.

The bulk of our rentals are direct, but the agency has the right to rent our place for dates we have not filled. (And has 'dibs' on open dates less than 90 days out.)

This is not the most profitable thing for us -- to pay the agency a fee to be available to our guests. It's our choice; many owners 'go bare' with only a cleaner or realtor on island. (Renter beware.) It IS more profitable to do direct rentals rather than pay the agency in excess of 25% of income from rentals they book.

Few agencies own ANY of the properties they are booking. They make money renting condos owned and furnished by others, and it is not in their interest to exclude the merely *liveable* ones from their pool. As long as a guest gets the promised *liveable* 1 BR 2 bath in X complex, the contract is fulfilled, even if the unit is spartan.

Because some vacationers today know they can rent direct and choose a specific condo, some agencies will now promise a specific unit; many won't.

There will always be some owners who will only rent via the agency. There are owners who run a string of rentals -- strictly a business. But there are a good number like us, who only rent their own vacation home, and who want/need the services of an agency to help them do it. Agencies may no longer be AS profitable, but I don't see them going away soon.

I see the only "plus" about going through a management company is that you can cancel or change reservations a lot more loosly than with the owner of a single property. We tried vrbo for the first time this year and were very pleased, especially with the price we paid for our unit. With the management company, we would have paid $270/night approx plus the $35 rental fee. Instead, we paid $220/night (including taxes/fees). That being said, we would have been out of luck if some emergency came up. I suppose we could have taken part of our savings to put into a trip insurance policy but then where is the fun in that. I think you should do what makes you and your daughter feel comfortable.

I do like to do most of my research right here and I like to see what others recommend based on the needs of a T/A poster.

We've rented via VRBO 9 times for 7 different condos. And all but one of these were also through a management company. We are able to pick the condo we want, arrange the financials, and then work with the management company from then on. It has worked great for us. We get the price of "rent by owner", the choice of condo of "rent by owner", and the convenience and security of a management company.

we rent at hph -- their mgt company only rents hph condos and are on site --- i can book the specific unit of my choice and if something goes wrong i have someone to turn to that will remedy the situation -- to me its the best of both worlds-im sure there are other condos that fall into this catagory

flwrgrdn: Thank you very much for the kind words. I'm glad you found my posts helpful. I have to say I'm very curious about who you were dealing with because if they are a property manager what they are saying doesn't make sense to me. I never understand why people don't name names on this forum. I kind of thought that was the whole point here. But that's your choice. (Although, I really think I might know who it was… would you be up for sending me a PM?)

I think one of the most confusing parts of vacation rentals is figuring out who exactly you are booking with. It really comes down to 3 different people: the owner, the property manager (PM), or a travel agent (TA) and it can be very difficult if not impossible to tell them apart just by looking at their websites.

First the Property Mangers. There are different types of PMs out there. You have the big corporate PMs like ResortQuest and you have the small PMs like me. PMs like ResortQuest are run a lot like hotels. Maui Banyan is an excellent example. ResortQuest does not own any of those units, each and every condo unit in Maui Banyan is individually owned. If an owner signs up with ResortQuest, they are added to the rental pool and they are designated a room type. For example a 1 bedroom ocean view or 1 bedroom garden view. The owner is also required to decorate their rooms like all the other ResortQuest rooms. When a guest books through ResortQuest they give their dates and what kind of room they want. ResortQuest puts the info into their system and the guest is randomly assigned to whatever unit fits their criteria. This is where you get those situations where guest don't know which room they are getting. By doing this, ResortQuest can move guests around as units become unavailable for repairs without causing problems with the guest. This is exactly the way hotels do it too. With a small PM, like me, I only deal with a limited number of units in a complex. For example I only have 2 units in Maui Banyan, a 1 bedroom and a 2 bedroom. So if you go to my website you would see pictures for those 2 units and only those units. Whereas if you go to ResortQuest's website you see pictures of a unit that represents what the other units look like. To be fair, since all of ResortQuest’s rooms do pretty much look the same, this may be ok for some people. Really, the difference is ResortQuest is selling you the complex as whole, while I’m selling the individual unit.

Second, the Travel Agents. Back before the Internet, most of my bookings came from TAs who were small independent business (mostly) with offices all over the world. When you wanted a condo in Maui you walked in to the TA office, told them what you wanted, and they went out and found it for you. The Internet changed all this. Now travelers can book their airlines, car rentals, and accommodations themselves. They can go to my website and book from me directly. As result a lot of TAs went of business. The ones that stayed had to change their business model. Now the put up websites that list all the condos and homes that are out there available to rent. They spend lots of money to make sure when you type in "maui vacation rental" into Google, their website comes up. So after you've checked out their site and seen some units you are interested in you send them an email request. When the TA gets that request, they turn around and start calling every PM they know of trying to find something that matches up with what you are looking for. I get dozens of these calls every day. Once they find something they get back to you with the details, you book something, they take your money, and send it to me. Now I have no major problems with this setup on principal. A lot of these TAs do a good job of taking care of their clients and help them with other things like booking activities and rental cars, just like they used to. And if something isn't right with the unit when the guest arrives, the TA acts as an advocate for the guest. The problem is a lot of them never tell you they are a TA. This can lead to all kinds of problems. First, the TA is responsible for making sure the traveler is aware of all the payment and cancellation deadlines. I have had to cancel many reservations because payment didn't show up on time or kept deposits because reservations weren't cancelled in time. These things happened because the TA dropped the ball. Second, the TA can charge more for my unit then I would. I give every TA a 10% commission, but some TAs tack on additional costs without telling me or the guest. I have had guests tell me they were paying a TA up to 2 times as much as I would have charged them. Third, if a guest that booked with a travel agent shows up and doesn't like the place they booked, they have no recourse through me. This happens all the time too. The guest will say they were promised the unit had Internet access, an ocean view, a sofa bed, an A/C or some other attribute that the unit just doesn't have. They'll go the TA asking for their money back, but guess what? The TA doesn't have the money, I do and I'm not giving it back.

Now how does this latest "Humpback Helper rant" tie in to the original post? Um, I don't know… I forgot...just kidding. It sounds to me like whoever flwrgrdn was talking to was actually a TA. The reason they didn't want to give a room number was because they were afraid you'd find out that the same room was available directly from the real PM and might have even been cheaper. For a real PM it doesn't matter how the guest ends up booking a unit they manage. Whether it came from a TA or an owner, the PM still gets a cut. The amount of that cut can vary, but they still get a cut. Or they are booking the unit through one of the larger PMs, like ResortQuest, and in that case he is right, he can’t get room numbers. But if that is what he is doing, why not just book direct? When you book with a TA you a putting a middle man between yourself and the place you are staying. If that middle man isn’t good at their job, and something goes wrong, there could be real problems. That being said, I am painting with a very wide brush here. There are plenty of TAs out there that I enjoy working with and go the extra mile for their client and earn their commission by finding the great deals out there. Unfortunately, like every other industry, some are better than others.

If you want to be sure you are booking from a PM and not a TA there are few things to look for. 1st, the agent should be located in the place you are renting. If you are booking a Maui condo and they are located in Phoenix, they are not the PM. 2nd, they should be a licensed Realtor. According to Hawaii state law, if you are managing more than 1 property and you are not the owner, you have to be Realtor. 3rd, ask whoever you are booking from, if the toilet were to start leaking, are they the ones who are going to be coming out to deal with it? Because whoever is the one that shows up to check out the leak, that is the PM.

Okay, my hands cramping up, so I can’t type anymore. Feel free to ask me an questions if any of that didn’t make sense.

well there you go, all you ever wanted to know about rentals. I think the biggest thing when planning a trip or where to stay or what to do is keep an open mind. Posters put up their ideas but make it your trip, all people have differest expectations and there is not one correct answer to Hawaii.

thanks for the response Humpback. I did PM you. the reason I didn't post his name, the name(s) of his companies or the websites he quoted me was I think people can be educated on what to ask, what to look for, and what they need, to know exactly what they are getting (especially with great advice like yours!) without posting his name or company. I will do negative reviews of a certain specific property I have stayed at if needed, but felt okay in not posting negatively about something I hadn't experienced first hand, just in email from what he told me.

If anyone wants to know who it was, I will happily provide it with a PM.

Good to know there are property managers out there who provide full disclosure and excellent service while on the islands.